By: Dr. Tomi Mitchell
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In this episode, I, your host, Dr. Tomi Mitchell, had the pleasure of interviewing the lovely Dr. Robin Buckley
About our Guest
Dr. Robin Buckley, CPC, helps high-achieving clients thrive in their careers and relationships. She is an author, public speaker, and cognitive-behavioral coach who works with executive women and high-performance couples. Her proprietary coaching model uses a business framework and cognitive-behavioral strategies to support clients in creating and executing concrete, strategic plans for developing their careers and relationships.
The founder of Insights Group Psychological & Coaching Services, Dr. Buckley has a Ph.D. in clinical psychology and served as a doctoral professor and dissertation chair for students in business, leadership, education, and healthcare. She has published two books, including Voices From the Village: Advice for Girls on the Verge of Adulthood. Dr. Buckley is a columnist for Entrepreneur.com and has been featured as an expert on multiple media platforms, including Thrive Global, Authority Magazine, Nike, various podcasts, News Radio 96.7, and WGN Radio 720.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 0:07
Hello everyone, this is your host Dr. Tomi Mitchell from the Mental Health and Wellness show. Today I have the pleasure of introducing Dr. Robin Buckley, CFPC. She helps high achieving clients thrive in their careers and relationships. She is an author, public speaker and cognitive behavioral coach who works with executive women and high performance couples. Her proprietary coaching model uses a business framework and cognitive behavioral strategies to help support clients in creating and executing concrete strategic plans for developing their careers and relationships. The founder of insights group psychological and coaching services. Dr. Buckley has a PhD in Clinical Psychology and served as a doctoral profession and dissertation chair for students in business leadership, education and health care. She has published two books including Voices From The Village, Advice For Girls On The Verge Of Adulthood. And also Dr. Buckley is a communist for entrepreneur.com and has been featured as an expert on multiple media platforms, including Thrive Global, Authority Magazine, Nike, various podcasts, news, Radio 96.7, and WG and Radio 720. So with no further ado, Robin thank you for coming today.
Dr. Robin Buckley 1:25
Thank you for having me. I've been looking forward to this.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 1:27
Yeah, we definitely try to connect for some time, the stars aligned. This is amazing.
Dr. Robin Buckley 1:33
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 1:34
Yeah, I kind of like, almost choked on your bio, it's so long, it's so beautiful, like you've done a lot. And you know, when I read it again, it's like it puts a smile to my face, so I try to continue talking with my big old cheeks smilling it's been a harsh. You know as a woman who definitely realized I am very, I'm a high performing individual. And I guess executive, it's interesting that that's your niche. Because you know, in this post COVID world, or whatever you want to call it, I'm sure a lot of women, including myself, they found their weakness that they found their kryptonite their Achilles heel where they thought, Okay, I got to balance my life, because this is not working. So anything you'd like to share with the readers just out continue asking questions after but I mean, I'll give you a chance to really talk about you.
Dr. Robin Buckley 2:20
I really enjoyed what has happened in my own life has been just that transformation from traditional mental health into coaching. Even though I got certified as a coach, right after my PhD, I didn't really go into the coaching model, because I spent years getting my PhD. So it was like, well, you know, it was just nice to kind of have and but the longer I did traditional mental health, the one thing that did not resonate with me personally or professionally was the medical model that we step in for intervention and we step in when there's a crisis and coaching just always drew me back to the why can we do this preventative model or a proactive model? Like why why can we work with people who are motivated to change not because they're in such horrible pain because they just want to get better be better, be their best. So coaching just aligned so much better. And as I got older, more and more, I just wanted to spend time with people that really just wanted to make improvements for the sake of improving not because they were so miserable, they had no other option. So I've really loved to the transformation in my own career and helping women do that has been just such a just, I don't know, honor privilege, like fun. It's just so great to watch women step into what they want and do what you know the life that they've always wanted. I just love being part of that. And then my couples work has been a fun evolution that we can talk about as well. But it's it's it's just really a wonderful part of us. You know.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 3:49
Dr. Robin Buckley 3:49
Doing what you love and helping other people do what they love.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 3:52
Yes, everything you just said again resonated with me it put a smile on my face like you, I will, your PhD I'm MD different tracks right. And after for me, I knew I believed in preventative medicine, preventive care, but the traditional model, like you said is reactive. It says don't intervene watch and see, less is more, right?
Dr. Robin Buckley 4:12
Seriously, if we're going to get a little bit personal. So my.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 4:16
Yeah, go ahead.
Dr. Robin Buckley 4:16
My mom, I told you my mom just got diagnosed with her second round of breast cancer in November and my sister has been through seven biopsies in her lifetime already. She's just coming out of one and she keeps begging to have a mastectomy. She's an intelligent, smart, she has done her research. She's like, I don't want to wait around. And then you treat the cancer I'd rather just like avoid that and Western medicine won't do it even though there's a strong family history that she has constant biopsies literally almost every year now because of questionable things. I'm like yeah, let's wait till she's like really at risk and then that feels away. It's crazy to me.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 4:17
I 100% agree it breaks my heart when I hear stories like that for sure. There are some people that will do it but I mean and then insurance and lots of other things. But it's it's wrong in many levels, because you're just waiting for this train to just derail you know what's going to happen.
Dr. Robin Buckley 5:08
Right, and then not only is it a physical count, you know, you're physically compromise, mentally. Exactly. So she's.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 5:13
You don't enjoy life, you don't enjoy.
Dr. Robin Buckley 5:15
Exactly, you just anticipate it. And my sister's a strong, tough woman. But you know, and she functions, she's just like, oh, well, let's just see. But I'm like, That is not a way to live. It's just horrible.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 5:26
It takes so much mental energy to have that positive outlook. Okay, let's see what each day like, I feel something is something going on.
Dr. Robin Buckley 5:34
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 5:34
How much time do I have with my family? You know, you don't start to plan too far for the future. Because you're like, oh, what if I have cancer?
Dr. Robin Buckley 5:41
Right, right. It's, it's crazy. To the idea of, and I know that lately, one of the reasons you went into coaching, like, it's just such a pleasure that to not be existing as a professional. Like, sorry, we can't do anything yet.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 5:54
Yes, it truly was. Because unfortunately, a lot of the public doesn't understand how our fields are regulated, how they're structured, right? In medicine were gifted, maybe 10 minutes an appointment, especially if your fee for service. Seriously, what can you do in 10 minutes? Right? And we're also scrutinizing my case, when I used to do a lot of counseling and couples counseling in the office, the biller, the payers insurance will be like, Why are you doing all this? Why are you doing this so often, and this isn't a Canadian healthcare system that's supposed to be free. So I'm like, well, because if we intervene now, their kids can have a happy home and not be scarred because their parents are dealing with a dysfunctional childhood, which is affecting in their dysfunctional relationship and how they live with each other. Oh, we go way to we have a situation where they're having gone through a horrible divorce dealing with lawyers, and the kids are pitted against each other. And their careers are torn. They're on disability, and it's just like a bloodbath.
Dr. Robin Buckley 6:50
Yeah, it's, that's it and that I love that you brought up the working with couples, because that's why I really, couples therapy is just hard. It's hard for everybody in the room, the professional and the couple. And I get why couples are like, I don't want to go to therapy because it's that emotional upheaval. It's taught spending a lot of time talking about the past. And as I worked with the executive women that were my clients, that's where my model for couples coaching came from, like the idea of why can't we when a couple's in a rut, why can't we do it then instead of when they're on the brink of divorce? And when one moment like you want you want a relationship that's satisfying and happy, then let's let's build a plan. Let's create a strategic approach to making that relationship healthy and satisfying and better before it's in crisis. And it's been so fun to watch couples, like settle in and I'll tell them right from the start, like I screen couple, certainly for anything that should be in therapy. So, recent abuse, recent addiction, recent fidelity, recent loss, absolutely should start in therapy. But after that, it's like, okay, let's, let's take out the emotion, let's or at least reduce it significantly. And we can't change the past, what happened in the past can't change. But we can change how you are now and how you want to be in the future. And that's where we focus. And I love when couples settle in and we start to talk in, I frame it like a business. So we start with a mission statement, what's your couple's mission statement? And I could God if I had $1, for every couple that looks at me, like what are you talking about? We don't have a mission statement. Like you mean, my one at work? I'm like, No, you want your relationship? Because if you can see the value in your organization, why wouldn't you have it the most important relationship in your life? That's where we start.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 8:34
Yes, I know. I love how you mentioned competitive business, because let's face it, it is a business. If you think about it, you want great, there's a third transactions that happen they have to check on balance. There has to be you know, there's things that need to get done.
Dr. Robin Buckley 8:48
Exactly. I feel when I walk when I talk to couples, we talk about, you know, performance improvement plans when things are not going right, or what are your KPIs? How do you how do you do your annual reviews at first? Couples have a hard time because they're like, but but it's a marriage it is supposed to be about love.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 9:05
And fun and it should be easy and flower.
Dr. Robin Buckley 9:07
And I'm like, yep, and those are all awesome. And I hope they are perfect but if you're basing the foundation of your relationship on love and sex, good luck.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 9:16
Good luck. Thank you, Sister. You like you are speaking my truth. And good luck. But they say oh, it shouldn't be hard because it's love. Even if it's hard. It's not meant to be a no sorry. If anything good in life you have to maintain, your car you take it into guest service, right?
Dr. Robin Buckley 9:34
Oh my God, I love this. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Like but you put a lot of financial investment into buying a house. And then if you don't do anything to invest in your house over the next 20 years, this supposed to be going to be worth on anything when you sell it. Do relationship is no different. But people just assume I get married and we're done. And I'm like, oh, no, that eight hour day. That's nothing like and you put in $25,000 and 300 hours to plan your eight day wedding. How much time and money did you put into planning your 30, 50 whatever years commitment like, oh, it is.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 10:10
Oh I, this is beautiful. No, you're right. I this should be regular check ins. I think every couple should have a qualified professional that they talk to, not someone who's given them airy fairy advice and just says, you know, very patriarchal, oh just listen to him, he's this or this and that no, no, no balanced. Well, you have two whole individuals coming together and there's mutual respect.
Dr. Robin Buckley 10:34
Right and the thing that I think is amazing to is that couples, not just couples, people don't translate regularly translate the skills and strengths they have in like the professional life into their relationships. So I was just working with a client couple weeks ago, and she was really upset. We're talking about a professional life. But she said she was really distracted because her husband, her husband is not participating in their relationship right now. He's really, he's going through his own challenges. And he's just like, totally checked out. So she's getting all worked up. She's getting very emotional. And I finally just didn't know, let's just take a breath. I said, let me ask you about work again. I said, tell me about like your team. I said, so is your team going well? Knowing that there were some things going on? She's like, no, there's this one team emerge driving me crazy. She's not doing her part. I'm like, well tell me how you've been? How are you going to address this or how so my client was able to say, well, I'm going to sit down with her. And I'm going to go through her responsibilities. And then I'm going to take over whatever I'm comfortable helping her with until she gets gets some time to get back on her feet. And then I'm going to check in with her once a week just to have a quick and she stopped and she's like, oh, my God, I could do this with my husband. I'm like, exactly, you know how to do it in your professional life. Just take those skills and strengths and apply it to your relationship. But again, like you said, people just stop at the, no, it's marriage, it's love, it's fine. And they don't realize like, but you don't have to reinvent yourself, you can just use what you do well in all other areas and apply it and it could work just as well.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 11:55
Yes, definitely. You know, individuals go decades in school, from the time you were four or five, depending on the part of the world, you started until like mid 20s, and some professionals well into their 30s and beyond if you especially if you didn't start right after high school, right? So you spend all this time and energy and all these systems and all this theory to practice but then when you go to your house, it basically you dump it out the welcome mat, and then you go in acting like you're just I'm here, honey.
Dr. Robin Buckley 11:56
Right and I sometimes think I actually wrote an article about this because it was something I heard from women over and over that they were they go to work, or they wake up in the morning, they'd be nurturing to their, you know, their partner to their kids to their dog or whatever it was, and they'd be in that role of maternal nurturer, they get in their car, and they'd have to flip it by the time they got to work because then they had to be professional and objective and keep their emotions in check. And then they go back home and they'd have to switch it again. And like no wonder you're exhausted. Like, could you find more of that harmony where you again, your strengths from home and at work could benefit in the other environment? So you're not feeling like you're literally taking off hats. Because that's me is such an energy SAP? Mentally, physically, emotionally, like, yeah.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 13:08
Yeah, I know, I hear you. Um, you know, when I finally decided I'm going all in with this coaching. Honestly, it first transformed my life because I had to go through all my past, present, future goals. And then naturally, you look at your next is your children and your your partner, in case my case, my husband, and it's funny, my husband would asked coz he's listen to me listening to whatever audio I was listening too. So he, he kind of heard it. And then one day, we're in the car, and he said, Are you trying to coach me? And I said, baby, and then, that one time, he said, do you treat your patients this way. I'm like I do with love and care. Right? So I get on them, and they know it. Well, they treat you any differently. So I can proudly say Dr. Buckley, I have mashed the two together.
Dr. Robin Buckley 13:52
I love it, I love it.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 13:53
Like there's no difference.
Dr. Robin Buckley 13:55
That in it, yeah. When when people talk to me about, you know, coaching, and I'll say to them, we all send them to my social media. I'm like, because it gives you a snapshot like you're gonna see you know, how I am in my videos because I don't use a script. I don't like it because I want you to see who I am authentically. So if I mess up, you see it in the videos if I if my dog runs them behind me or you know it that's because that's life and you're getting all of me and coaching like you're you're getting who I am as a person, which then dovetails with who I am as a professional because I don't I don't think it has to separate out like many, particularly women feel like they need to hide that side of them. Because again, leadership is based on more of that masculine model. And it's like, no, we can reinvent how leadership looks by just being who we are.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 14:39
Exactly. You can add your own touch to it, right? Doesn't have to look the same way.
Dr. Robin Buckley 14:45
Right because if we keep trying to, gosh, we've already evolved into so many topics. I love this. But if we try to keep trying to force ourselves to meet that traditional, stereotypical male base model of leadership, and it's never going to evolve and then our daughters and our our granddaughters are going to say, why hasn't it changed? Well, because we kept trying to conform instead of just saying, you know, yeah, that's some of me. But that's not all of me and other parts of me can be as successful, beneficial, efficient, productive, as you know, the traditional model, so yeah.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 15:15
100% and who says the traditional model doesn't need to adjust and evolve, just like the healthcare model, which I think is completely broken. No I think I know it is. And I feel like I'm betraying myself and the oath I swore when I first became a physician and to what is happening right now.
Dr. Robin Buckley 15:33
I agree. It was funny, because during the pandemic, now, the coaches in the private practice that I own, we're used to doing phone calls and video based calls, because that's what coaching typically relies on, my therapists were like.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 15:45
Oh, my goodness, no.
Dr. Robin Buckley 15:46
It's gonna happen. I'm like, we're just gonna do what we're doing in coaching, you're gonna apply it because now we can do telehealth, you know, therapy through telehealth. So as things I've been flowed and when they seemed like things were getting better, and they're like, okay, so are we going back full in person. And that was the one thing I told them they couldn't do. I said, you know, what, you have to hell a hybrid model where some of your clients you can offer in person, but you have to still maintain, you know, once you get to whatever it is 10, 10 during that week, the rest are going to be telehealth. Because I don't want to revert back just because that's the way we always did it. Because we made so much progress and knowing therapy and mental health can be addressed effectively and even more consistently through telehealth. So I'm not going to contribute to going back to the way we always did it. I know. So they were my therapists were like, Yes, great. We that we because we like the model too. But I don't want like you said just because it's always been in place. Just because you know, the model has always been based on leadership around the masculine perspective, just because therapy is always been done through in person, just because couples work has always been through couples therapy, we don't have to hold on to that if it's not working for us.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 16:51
Yes, I fully embrace the hybrid model. In many ways, I believe virtual is actually more effective. Number one, the client can actually get to you because they don't have to worry about dropping their kid here. And their tight schedules, they can literally roll out of bed and hi, right and the way you go, or they can go take their phone and go somewhere quiet and talk to you.
Dr. Robin Buckley 17:12
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 17:14
And you can show them things on your when you share screen, like, like, okay, this is a resource. Let me drop it into your chat. So you can copy and paste. Do you have that? Do you have that? Thank you.
Dr. Robin Buckley 17:23
Yeah, I love it. You know, and one of the things that I really liked about seeing the therapist transition and certainly using and coaching, you know, is there are times I remember clearly having clients walk in, in person, and they be like, visually and, you know, sounding happy and okay, I would shut my door and they burst out crying, and we, you know, do our session when I was doing therapy, or then even in coaching sometimes. And then when it was time for them to leave, you know, hopefully they were in that right state, but sometimes they weren't, and they would have to gather it all back up. So they could walk out smiling because there'd be people in the waiting room, and they loved it until I hope they don't have to do that they can just be at home and comfortable, you know, with their dog next to them and you know, whatever they needed, it's it's just nice to see mental wellness spaces that are now so personal because it's their home or their car or wherever is most comfortable for them. And that is, you know, certainly lots of struggles during the pandemic. But that was definitely a benefit that people realize that they get help with.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 18:25
100% even where I was practicing with the medical model, they finally allowed telephone calls where we could actually get paid our patients like what kind of doctor just call me. Yeah, so we're gonna call you and spend 20 minutes or 10 minutes and we have patients waiting for you. Right? And also bring home nothing, because let's face it, it's a business. We have to pay our bills, you have to pay receptionists you have to pay supplies.
Dr. Robin Buckley 18:48
Yep. Yeah, absolutely. It became so much more efficient and streamlined for everybody. So I'm that was the the one caveat. I was like, Okay, we're not doing to all in person, just because that's what we're used to. Um, and I don't think it took a lot of convincing for a lot therapists because they would say things like, you know, it's so great to be working with anybody across the lifespan and again, they're in the comfort of their own, they able to see like, oh, who's you know, who's that sitting next to you? It's your dog and what's not and it just becomes part of that rapport building that you know, we don't go into their homes for specific reasons, but through video we can get some of that snapshot and help them or you know, one of my clients who was having a hard time with public speaking the way we started she got up on video and she would practice with me and it was it was actually replicating what she was gonna do conserve to her talk was gonna be through zoom. So it was it was just lovely.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 19:37
Yeah, amazing. For sure the client can be anywhere and you know, you can talk to them, yeah recently in the news depending on for the listeners, this might not be recent, but I'm sure it's gonna happen again. We've had cases of these high functioning professional women like they will recently was a lawyer in the US who you know, committed suicide just 30 she had won like beauty contest. All these other things, but from the outside looking good, and then but for the inside, clearly not happy clearly not in a great place. And that goes back to these you working with these executive women, these high functioning couples who are able to put on this mask, you know, and then once they get home, it's a whole new story or when they're under significant pressure, that's when it breaks.
Dr. Robin Buckley 20:23
Absolutely, absolutely having the, you know, when people talk about therapy and coaching, like and I think both have very distinct roles, and I like people to know clearly what the difference is between those two, but knowing that there are supports and you know, I talk about and you can, you'll resonate with this as with your background, but you know, people wouldn't wait until their leg is black and they can't walk on it before they go see a physician, they will go in as soon as they start to feel a tingling or going none. But when it comes to our mental wellness, people will just wait and wait, instead of stepping in early or not even early, but not even waiting till there's a symptom just saying, you know, I'm just gonna go in for a regular checkup, just see how I'm doing. Make sure that what I'm perceiving how I'm thinking is aligned with how I want to function. So you're, you're again, that preventative model, you're doing it before there's even symptoms, just like you know, for most women, I hope, especially after what we talked about earlier, but they go in for their regular GYN checkup every year. That's not because there's a problem, it's because to avoid the problems we even check in with your dentist twice a year. To avoid the problems and keep your teeth as functional as they can be. And yet our emotions and our thought processes are just gonna exist without support. And after all these years in my field, it still is like why why are we so much ignore that?
I totally agree. And I believe that this whole mental health and wellness piece is the foundation for Health and Society. And if that is not taken care of at the foundation, which is what I can believe it's the home. That first exposure to people is in your home with your caregivers or parents. And we have a situation.
Yeah, absolutely. So you know, when I look I yeah, that story was heartbreaking. When I read that about she was a miss, I can't remember, she was Miss America or Miss Universe or something like that.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 22:03
Miss America, and she won a few crowns.
Dr. Robin Buckley 22:06
Oh, yeah, she was yeah, amazingly, you know, talented, not just in, you know, that realm. But in all so much of her professional life.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 22:13
She is a giver. She helped people, you know, in court, those who didn't have the funds she gave her time.
Dr. Robin Buckley 22:19
Just amazing. And to think that with just the right support, and I don't mean to support within her her circles, but that societal level of breaking down this stigma of mental health, and that's why I like the term mental wellness, because it's not just a mental well and health well always it's like, oh, what's wrong with you? No, no, no, no. So it's like if we just looked at it again. So you went to see your dentist, you went to see your GYN you went to see your physician you went to see your counselor therapist or coach like that should just be in my peripheral arm is part of exactly.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 22:51
Dr. Robin Buckley 22:51
Oh, yes, becuase that I think people will have that outlet and won't go won't get to that level or more people won't get to that level of just giving up.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 23:00
100% I like to use the word mental health and wellness. I say, you know, as long as you have a heart and a brain, you're going to have a situation of concern at some point. So let's keep it real. The same when we talk about whether it's sports should be the same when we talk about mental health and wellness. Hello, why why do.
Dr. Robin Buckley 23:15
You got it, go ahead.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 23:16
Yeah, why did a governing body stigma like create the stigma, especially in professions I find like physicians, Dear God, for God forbid, you admit that you're human. And they're like, oh, let's take away your license. Let's investigate. Right? And the the method in which they investigate causes further trauma. Right? That's often what I hear
Dr. Robin Buckley 23:35
It is, it's a, it is because it doesn't have to be that way. And it's not that way other realm. Yeah, it's it's health, you know, our health we we can wrap our brains around the physical stuff, but the mental seven I agree, it starts there if you don't have your mental wellness, you know, a lot of parents would reach out to my practice during the pandemic and they would talk about how their kids were nose diving in their academics. And my my, my go to question was, what is more important your kids health overall health or their grades? And they're like, Well, no, I'm like, no, no, if you have to choose, I'm pushing you to choose and of course, most of them would would say, Oh, absolutely. Their health. I'm like, okay, then that's your choice right now then whatever supports your kids health, whatever that looks like, the grades are second right now. And they won't necessarily always be second or third or fourth or whatever. But the health because if your kids not healthy in all realms, grades aren't going to matter. So it says it's yeah, when you break it down into those simplistic terms, it's like if you're going to choose one, which ones are going to be and of course I would hope it would always be health, yeah.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 24:41
Health, everyone a 100% agree and some how we have to continue to push to push this agenda. I'm gonna call it our agenda, mental health and wellness, that you have better societies for us or future generations, etc, etc. Couples are happier because you know what, for anyone who's listening who perhaps You are you own a business. So you have employees, if your employees are healthy mentally, I guarantee they will do productive at work. Because I have hired a whole, like over 12 years, I've had dozens of employees. And I know that the ones who are struggling mentally, especially the ones that were in denial of it, they did poorly. They're often late to work tardy going on disability, all which cost the employer money and decreased productivity. So it's in your best interest financially, and other reasons, but finances typically get the attention of bigger corporation, it's in your best interest to make sure that these individuals are healthy, and that you bring wellness into your business culture, like actually literally bring them inside.
Dr. Robin Buckley 25:44
Yeah, it is ama.., there's so much and I, when I talk to business owners, or organizational leaders, it really this come down to that I'm like, let's look at it a little bit from any level, first of all, from just the human level, you're supporting your employees, they're going to feel that they're going to feel more loyalty and connects with the organization, which then means that they're not going to leave, because you're not going to have more money to retrain on top of that, you're not going to be paying the health benefit, or the the benefits to maintain their health because they're preventative already healthy, and you're supporting them at the early stages. And as you said, and if none of that resonates with you the support of your employees and the loyalty then just from that level of satisfaction, and, and really optimal functioning, they're gonna make you a ton more money than if they are struggling and coming in and have to, you know, have distracted by what's going on at home. So when I talked to, I've been pushing the idea of I'm thrilled to see a lot of organizations that are incorporating mental health as part of the benefits. But now I'm like, okay, now when you've got that I'm not happy with just that now have a coaching because coaching is that step before they need the mental health. So when we talk about yeah, I talked to him about their extended benefits. And like, you know, you offer discounts to gyms, why wouldn't you offer a coach coming into work with them professionally, or coach coming in to offer couples coaching. Because if they're happy in their relationship, they're going to be happier employee. So instead of like, piecemealing this together, why not just create this whole platform of where are you? And what do you need, and maybe the more you offer, that they're starting at that that really initial prevention level, and they won't need the rest, which again, will save organizations money. So it's, there is no downside to this, it's just breaking that traditional perspective of what benefits are for what an organization, you know, they need to be removed from their employees, instead of saying it's going to benefit everybody, if we just address this and have the supports in place when or if they need it.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 25:57
Yes. And to really push the same point you made emphasize it like business owners, I know you're there listening, um, you are basically the filter of all that employees life from childhood on if you don't realize it, trust me, you are because you know, I've definitely been close to my employees over the years where they'll share stuff with me. And sometimes I just know from being intuitive, and just having the experience that this is not going right. So your work could is often the scapegoat to what is really going on in their life, their personal lives. So it is in your best interest. Because guess what, as long as you provide the benefits, and they work for you, if something happens to them, let's say they're a mountain disability, it's coming out of your books for a very long time. And with zero productivity, so it's an expense.
Yeah, I love how you describing that. Yeah, because the filter that is absolute filter.
Work is the filter. You're like the oyster.
Dr. Robin Buckley 28:22
Yeah. That is great. That is awesome, yeah.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 28:26
Right? It is so much more cost effective it's ethical to have therapists and coaches in the business and for the leaders, you need it to yourself, because a healthier leader will be able to lead the employees continue with the vision, the mission and just be more effective. So lets go top down.
Dr. Robin Buckley 28:46
It really is and I think when a leader is doing that, and demonstrating that, yeah, I go talk to someone and you know, I used to work with a therapist, and then I got, you know, to a place of mental health and wellness, and now I'm working with a coach, it creates a whole mental wellness culture. So it creates that again, idea that yeah, it's absolutely typical and normal again, just like I would go see one of my physical doctors, that I'm seeing, you know, someone from the cognitive side, the psychological side in order to, to, again, function at my very, very best way I want to feel the way I want to function. And when a leader does that, it absolutely can be so impactful quickly. Employees are saying, Oh, well, if there if there's no stigma about it, then I am going to reach out and say I really could use the support knowing that if the leader is doing it, they're going to get that say, you know that that encouragement to do so. So I totally, I love it.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 29:42
Yeah. And that's something that took me a while to be that leader, but when I finally did after reaching burn out that's another story. You know, I tell my employees, you guys, no one is going to work a full like 40 hours a week every week. No, I'm going to take you off at least one to two days per month where you meet to go get your checkups, go see a therapist, go get groceries, go for a walk. And no, because that's common. Yeah. Right? Because people don't have boundaries that they go, Okay, I'm gonna take on this and do this and do this, which is great. I love those employees, but they need to have self care, otherwise they crash and burn.
Dr. Robin Buckley 30:15
Right? And then they're no good.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 30:16
They're no good.
Dr. Robin Buckley 30:17
Nows the organization. Anybody? Yeah, I know, my therapists, when they when they first get hired, a lot of them come from like community mental health, where the structure is that you know, you get who you get, and you work, you know, your work as much as possible. So they come into my practice, and I'm like, look, 20 sessions a week is considered full time. And I don't encourage you to go over like 25 to 28. And they just stare at me like what I'm like, you're not going to be effective. If you're just session to session to session, like, when do you I say, I'm like when you cleanse your palate to be able to like, catch your breath, recharge, so that you are ready for the next person. And if you're doing eight sessions in a row, you're going to be worthless for the last 3 to 4 people like so yeah.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 31:02
Exactly. And that is part of the reason why I disliked so medical models, when it's like here, go see 30, 40, 50, 60s patients in a day.
Dr. Robin Buckley 31:11
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 31:13
I did the work for a very long time and I was like good Lord.
Dr. Robin Buckley 31:18
You look back, you're like, how did I do that?
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 31:20
I don't even know how I did it. Like, dude, I didn't have kids. Right? That really help.
Dr. Robin Buckley 31:26
Yeah they take a lot of energy, and a lot of physical cognitive of oh, my gosh, they take so much.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 31:32
Exactly. So that that helped. But I mean, I'm happier, healthier, stronger, more intuitive now doesn't mean that people don't have problems, challenges, I think it actually increase as you become more higher power executive, it's just you're able to reframe, and you have more bandwidth to deal with them.
Dr. Robin Buckley 31:49
Right. And I think that's just said that you're not as distracted. So when actually, again, just this week on Monday, I woke up, I was in an off mood, and I usually am a morning person and ready to go could not get my motivation going for the first couple hours. And I'm like, this is not the day to do my normal stuff like this is the day to go for a couple extra walks, and go do some mindless errands because something's off. And that's where because I try and implement. I know not that I'm perfect by any means. But I try and implement what I help other people with. And when I'm noticing those small red flags of why isn't my motivation where it usually is, why didn't I sleep as well as I normally do? That's the time to step back and say, Okay, what's going on? Like what's happening? And maybe it's just an off week, and that's okay, but maybe it might it might be some signs of something else that I need to adjust. But if you're just seeing 30 patients, you know, in a in a week for a therapist, or God forbid, 50 in a day where you back said, where is that ability to step back and say, Hmm, something something's not right. And the same with couples, if you're just going and going these high performance couples that I see if you're just charging and charging through your days, there's no ability to step back and say, Are we good? Like, how are we feeling? And I love the couples are like so we you know, we do our I talked about at least doing at minimal quarterly check ins and they're like, okay, so we will go on a date and we'll check in I'm like, no, no, no, your dates are about the fun and the romance and the connectivity and all the like the bells and whistles of your relationship, knowing you have a when you have a quarterly check in is a formal business meeting you are sitting down like going through your goals going through your KPIs, like that's not a date. And if you think that's a date that we have other things to talk about. But yeah, that time to like just check in and make and if it's a five minute check in like, No, we're really good. Like, yeah, we're hitting everything great. But maybe it's a time where you're like, Oh, we're kind of missing something. And now let's take the energy and time to get it back on track before it derails completely.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 33:50
Exactly. And for the listeners KPIs, the key to know is key performance indicators.
Dr. Robin Buckley 33:55
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 33:55
You're welcome. And you know, that check in I know you share the same values. I like to look at it in a holistic way. So when you look at your wellness wheel, you look at your finances like oh my goodness, you didn't talk about it. Where are you? Right, and emotional connection, your environment is your home, like a sanctuary. Do you have a place where you can retreat to by yourself?
Dr. Robin Buckley 34:16
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 34:18
Dr. Robin Buckley 34:19
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 34:19
Was it just chaos with you know, 20,000 cats and 10 kids and there's not even a place for you to breathe? Well, I gotta give him it's not your kids.
Dr. Robin Buckley 34:30
I talk to couples a lot of I call it the No Kid Zone. And like just Just five minutes 10 minutes a day where you know your place the kids know that that unless someone is dismembered or bleeding and like, you don't knock on the door. And you just if you do nothing but sit there together reading a magazine, like it's just the downtime that you are a couple you're not parents, you're not employees, you're not leaders. You're just a couple to share in space. And that is so important. I talk to couples a lot about scheduling sex. And they always, you know, I almost always get pushed back like, oh, it should be spontaneous I'm like oh yeah how often do you having sex in the relationship.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 35:07
Oh, no, that should be hybrid model. Okay? This should be some schedules and some PRN as needed.
Dr. Robin Buckley 35:13
Exactly. Oh, I love that we're gonna totally use that. That is perfect.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 35:16
I was actually not original, I should write that down before I forgot.
Dr. Robin Buckley 35:20
Yeah, because it's when I talk to him like, well, what do you have on your calendar? They're like, Oh, you know, important meetings dates, we want to remember things that we want to make sure we do. And I'm like, and sex is not one of those things. Like I don't know about you. But I don't know any couple at you know, after they've been married, at least, you know, several years or more that it is as regular as they'd like.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 35:38
It isn't unless you're deliberate.
Dr. Robin Buckley 35:40
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 35:40
And even when you deliver it's not.
Dr. Robin Buckley 35:42
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 35:43
Especially if you're like a rabbit in the beginning. Like I'm talking to myself about myself. No, no, I was not doing though. I love my accent. But you know, valid.
Dr. Robin Buckley 35:56
It's so true, it's, it, it does not, you know, it doesn't take away from the romance.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 36:01
Dr. Robin Buckley 36:03
It just adds.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 36:04
Dr. Robin Buckley 36:05
It happens and oh my gosh, yeah. I love I love this conversation.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 36:11
And I love this conversation too. When I would have patients come in for the annual physical like, they know who I am. I don't play this so sugarcoating me. I saw how's it going? You know that I got good. Okay. So how are your husband? Good? Sounds good. May ask a few questions like Okay, how about rolling in the haystack? What's happening the bedroom? I'm like, yeah, like how many times a year like eight nine sexless need to work on it? What's going on? Like you don't I mean, like, I'm, they're like, really, and then they suddenly start talking to you about this, this and that. And that this like, this is great. Like, break the ice. You know, Maslow's triangle on the bottom of this triangle? He has sex there is there with air. Hello. And that was back in the day?
Dr. Robin Buckley 36:48
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 36:50
Dr. Robin Buckley 36:51
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 36:51
We didn't talk about this.
Dr. Robin Buckley 36:53
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 36:53
It's bear with Aaron suit. Go look, it's there, listeners.
Dr. Robin Buckley 36:57
Yeah, it is amazing when, uh, I used to teach undergrads and I used to love when we would I teach intro Intro to Psychology because I just loved watching their faces, particularly when we get to the chapter on sex and gender and sexuality. And I would talk to them and, you know, emphasize this idea that sex should be a lifetime experience. I mean, obviously, once you're at an age that you can manage it in a healthy way.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 37:20
Dr. Robin Buckley 37:20
But you know, it is not something that just shuts down at 50, 55, 60. I used to look them like, I know, you don't want to think about your parents and your grandparents.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 37:29
And that's a little nasty.
Dr. Robin Buckley 37:30
Yeah. I'm like, can you imagine someone telling you at age 60, I'm sorry, you can no longer have sex. And now you can't have sex for another 10, 20, 30 years. If you're lucky enough to live that long. Like that is more than some of you have been alive. And now you're saying someone can't have sex for the length of the life you've had on this earth? And they would just stare at me laughing I'm like, no, really like sex is an important way to connect. It's not just a physical remount.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 37:53
Dr. Robin Buckley 37:55
It's a connection. And there's, I'm preaching to the choir with you, but there's so many health benefits you mention. Oh, my God.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 38:03
Reduction on prostate cancer, man.
Dr. Robin Buckley 38:05
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 38:05
Yes. It's huge.
Dr. Robin Buckley 38:07
My husband regularly reminds me of that. I'm like.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 38:09
Oh, my husband too, he likes to send me articles from flip or whatever he boought, like, this is good protein. I'm like, Just leave me alone dude. Just give me more.
Dr. Robin Buckley 38:17
Oh gosh I love it. Yeah, like, no, like, I am not the one you have to convince. I'm good. Like, we're a couple of things about this. But I know that just a reminder.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 38:29
I know. It's good. I think as society it's like people just want to talk about it. But it's necessary, especially in the in a safe loving, crucifies me one on one relationship.
Dr. Robin Buckley 38:44
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 38:44
That's what I that's what I'm all about. Teach their own baby. But yeah, no, it's important. And we need to schedule it and also have PRN and I like to tell my clients and patients it's begins in the kitchen no, doesn't have to literally but from that morning, good morning, or you grabbed their but or you just maybe you help them do whatever they're doing, like a lot of people's love languages, including mine is acts of service. So if you come and help me chop my onions, I don't have to cry later on. So choppy, or you don't have to have blue balls. So just help me chop my onions.
Dr. Robin Buckley 39:15
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 39:16
Right. Little things.
Dr. Robin Buckley 39:16
It is. It's when I talk with clients about the schedule in sex, be it is exactly what you said. It's not just the end of the day, together in the bedroom. And I remember clients saying that it changed how what he would choose to eat for lunch because he said, You know, I wouldn't I wouldn't have the big cheese steak and fries when I knew that we were scheduled to have sex later on because I didn't want to feel bloated and will gas. Oh, he said I would choose like something healthier and lighter or there was a woman I worked with who she said when my wife and I knew it was on the calendar. You know, I would make sure I didn't work right up until six o'clock and then because there was no time to like kind of decompress. I would I would cut my day off at four, and I would I would walk to my car instead of taking a cab to my you know where she was park and then I'd get home and I wouldn't like get ingrained in the kids stuff I would like maybe they had a nanny so that she would make sure the nanny was there longer.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 39:21
Dr. Robin Buckley 39:24
And all it did it was the whole day of prepping. So it's that cognitive piece of sex, which is particularly important for women, so..
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 40:23
We're not on and off switch.
Dr. Robin Buckley 40:24
Right and by the time you're walking through the bedroom door, you're really ready because you've been thinking about it in bits and pieces, all that not just erotically, but like hearing to be fully there with your partner and I just I'm always impressed when couples are starting to like realize that it's not just about that end point process to get to it, which is really lovely.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 40:46
Yeah, I like to I use this analogy of like the cake. So there's the icing on the cake. And then there's the cake. The sex is kind of the icing. But honestly, would you eat a plane icing no, it gets sick. So half the cake with the icing.
Dr. Robin Buckley 40:57
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 40:58
Right? I just came across that right now. That was like chopped, my best moments are on when I'm just talking yapping my mouth. So PRM sex and icing on the cake. Okay.
Dr. Robin Buckley 41:10
There we go. I love it.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 41:14
And again, goes back to that balance, right? If you go 8, 10, 12 hours a day, six, seven days a week, where do you get the time to decompress?
Dr. Robin Buckley 41:21
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 41:21
And for ladies, especially ladies who are quote unquote middle age, neary menopause, or past menopause. It is especially important for us to be relaxed because things are not the same physiologically there are things that we can do to help the situation like dryness and tearing all that stuff. But you you really need this mind play get on the same page.
Dr. Robin Buckley 41:42
Yes, our brains get in the women I talked to and it still It hurts. It hurts to hear how many women don't have regular orgasms or have never never had an orgasm, which still blows my mind and, and so much of it is just the insecurities and the doubts or the putting everybody else first for themselves. And that's just not going to work.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 42:06
Dr. Robin Buckley 42:06
It's, it's gonna undermine everything that you, you not just that you want, but that your partner wants, like they love you. And they want you to feel good. And I try and help women reframe it to you are giving your partner a gift if you just developing, and let it happen for as long as it needs to happen until you do climax. Oh my god, their ego, male or female. Yup I did it.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 42:31
And you know how speaking of ego once they're happy, male or female, you know, their home leader. They're like what? Like, oh, my Heidi's my husband example. Just listen to this podcast. So it's not like he's your baby do Honey, I love you. Like you also they like go clean the house and talk to bottles, mills do this. They're like, doo doo doo doo doo. What a happier man. You can do the honey do list?
Dr. Robin Buckley 42:52
Yeah, it's all because it's a connectivity again. Everything is so related. So when you try and separate it out? It's just gonna emerged.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 43:00
I don't believe in separation. No, it's all fluid. It's all one wheel. It's all connected. Whether you like it or not guess what it's happening. Whether you acknowledge it or not. It's true.
Dr. Robin Buckley 43:09
Yeah, the business plans that I help couples come up with for their relationships. It we talked about all of it. Because if you're making if you're creating a business from the ground up, there is not a piece that you would want to be like, Oh, we don't need to talk about that. We don't need to incorporate that.
Dr. Tomi Mitchell 43:23